Doctor Doom Key Comics & Other Issues Part 1

Yes, and "other issues" because Victor von Doom has quite a few issues. We shall get to those.

This was requested a while back by Da Ragu when news first broke that a solo Dr. Doom flick was in production. The thought was very much like is Doctor Doom key comics worth investigating or not?

I didn't think it would hurt to investigate to see if there were other significant Dr. Doom key issues. I mean, he is an iconic Marvel villain and arguably one of the most iconic in Marveldom. 

What else is there to Doom besides 1st, 2nd, 3rd appearance, origin, and first villain team-up? I thought, What the heck? We can find out and maybe uncover some not so well-known sleepers or minor keys. 

Maybe some that aren't necessarily keys either or just not seen as significant yet but are to the character. Some say villains aren't good comic investments. I think there are exceptions and Doctor Doom is definitely one of them, but this should be fun if not anything else.

Paging Dr. Doom, paging Dr. Doom.  

The doctor is in!

FANTASTIC FOUR #5 VOLUME 1

1st appearance & origin Doctor Doom

One of the best and notable Fantastic Four key issues since it debuts one of the most iconic FF and Marvel villains ever, Doctor Doom. He is Victor von Doom and not only is this guy a super genius that invents a whole bunch of cool tech but he is also a powerful sorcerer.

Double the trouble and double the villainy. He is also the ruler of his very own nation, and that is the fictional nation of Latveria. Needless to say that he is a ruthless dictator and Doomstadt is its capitol.

Anyway, we'll get to Latveria a bit more. So, the story goes that after Lee and Kirby kicked off the Fantastic Four title, it had been selling quite well.

The next step was to introduce a new baddie that would be the crème de la crème of super villains, one whose very name would make fans fear for the lives of their favorite heroes. Legends Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were up to the task.

In the words of Stan Lee himself, the name for this sensational villain was to be "eloquent in its simplicity — magnificent in its implied menace," and so it was Doctor Doom!

As most already know cause you can pretty much look it up on wikipedia, Kirby modeled Doom's look on death and wanted the metal armor to signify a creature void of flesh and thus mercy. In his own words:

"It was the reason for the armor and the hood. Death is connected with armor and the inhuman-like steel. Death is something without mercy, and human flesh contains that mercy."

What about Doom's first origin? Let's take a look at this pretty short origin of Doctor Doom.

As most know, there are pence copies or "UK Editions" for this particular issue. They are considered 1st prints as well, and as I've said prior, a niche market is growing for them.

I'll put the image for your reference in case you're into them or these pence copies garner your fancy somewhere down the line. They are currently harder to find and more scarce in the secondary market.

As shown before, the CGC Census is a lot more sparse than the regular U.S. Editions or copies. Not hyping them up or pushing them. I'm just stating what it is at the time of this writing, and that is all.

Like 'em or don't care for 'em: They do exist. Fantastic Four #5 has the cover date of July, 1962 and was released in April of the same year.

FANTASTIC FOUR #6 VOLUME 1

2nd appearance of Doctor Doom
2nd S.A. Sub-Mariner appearance
1st Marvel super-villain team up

Usually, I'd say if you can't afford the debut of a major comic character you can try their 2nd appearance, but in this case, this issue is pretty pricey already itself. No surprise there since this issue does have Doom's 2nd appearance and it goes hand-in-hand with Namor's 2nd Silver Age appearance.

I know it's not a true 2nd appearance as Subby is from the Golden Age, but it's the 2nd appearance for the character under the Marvel banner. Anyway, those two things already make this comic pretty awesome.

But there is extra gravy to this issue, and this issue also has the first villain team up under the Marvel banner as well. That is very cool. Come to think about it, is Namor the earliest comic anti-hero for Marvel?

Mind is wandering there. So, with all the key issue goodness for this comic, it's still a cheaper alternative than Doom's debut but already pretty expensive. Not surprising since it is an early Fantastic Four comic and the FF kicked off the world of Marvel Comics.

Fantastic Four #5 CGC 8.0 | Fantastic Four #6 CGC 8.0

$5,655.00 (Sep 2015 | $1595.95 (Jun 2017)

Fantastic Four #5 CGC 7.0 | Fantastic Four #6 CGC 7.0

$3,500.00 (Sep 2015 | $750.00 (Aug 2017)

Fantastic Four #5 CGC 4.0 | Fantastic Four #6 CGC 4.0

$1,450.00  (Jun 2017 | $395.00 (Sep 2017)

Interesting numbers of slabbed sales data that GoCollect has for these two issues. Take from it what you will. I already have.

UK pence copies obviously exist. Not that many slabbed copies and this issue is pretty sparse in high grade 9.6 and 9.4 so far in the CGC Census.

Zero 9.8s as of this writing. Is this an over-looked key? Well, at least, CGC does note this as the 2nd appearance of Dr. Doom.

Anyway, don't wanna look like I'm hyping this book up or anything, but important key for Dr. Doom. Released June of 1962, Fantastic Four #6 has the cover date of September, 1962.

FANTASTIC FOUR #10

3rd appearance of Doctor Doom

Doctor Doom returns to build upon his legacy as being the formidable foe of the Fantastic Four. This his 3rd appearance, and other than that, there really isn't much else to be honest.

Well, there is the gag that Stan Lee and Jack Kirby are in this comic. First time ever in a Fantastic Four comic but I am not sure if this is the first time they put themselves in a comic story.

According to marvel.wiki.com, Stan Lee did put himself in the 78th issue of Patsy and Hedy. That came out more than a year prior to this issue.

According to the same source, this may be King Kirby's first appearance in a comic. I'm not 100% sure about that though, so take with a grain of salt.


Cover date for Fantastic Four #10 is January, 1963 and release date is October, 1962.

FANTASTIC FOUR #16

4th appearance of Doctor Doom
1st Ant-Man x-over
1st appearance of Pearla 
1st appearance of Sub-Atomica

Sub-Atomica and the Microverse in Marvel Comics is a bit confusing. I tried to explain this in the Micronauts key issues/comics series and brought up this comic.

With news of Janet van Dyne definitely being in the Ant-Man and Wasp flick and all that jargon about how she went sub atomic, speculation has it that a region of the Microverse called Sub-Atomica just might be explored in the sequel. Sounds logical to me.

Ant-Man does guest-star in this issue like the cover suggests, so there is an early connection with Sub-Atomica and Ant-Man. Sub-Atomica is a location in the Microverse and somewhere in comics the two were merged into one universe.

Back then, however, and in this comic, Sub-Atomica appears to be a teeny weeny tiny universe in which Doctor Doom had shrunk down and into after his last encounter with the Fantastic Four. Of course, he ended up taking over this realm of the Microverse.

As usual, the team ends up going to this strange tiny universe and crossing paths with ole Doom again. Not a very well-known key but connects with Ant-Man's micro world and the world of the Micronauts.

Maybe even Psycho-Man since he is greatly associated with Sub-Atomica and the Microverse. Princess Pearla is a pretty minor character but is royalty on the Mirwood planet in Sub-Atomica. She would later ascend to Queen and Psycho-Man would overthrow her kingdom twice.

After researching a bit more, this issue does appear to be the first Ant-Man cross-over in comics. With that said and having the debut of Sub-Atomica, this just might be more of an Ant-Man key issue being that it is his cross-over.

Some other minor goodness is that this is the first meeting between Doctor Doom and Ant-Man. It actually might very well be the first meeting between the Fantastic Four and Ant-Man.

There are pence copies or UK Editions for this comic as well. Cover is to the left for reference as usual.

As shown above, both CGC and Overstreet recognize this issue as the 1st Ant-Man cross-over. Not an overly sought-out Silver Age key at the moment but not cheap in high grades either.

Not really sure if this one is that well-known or not. Most movement for slabbed copies are in the 8.0 and below range.

3 most recent sales this year for 8.0 CGC copies were two on eBay and one on Heritage. Only 2017 sales numbers I could find for this issue at that slabbed grade:

2017

Heritage: $479 (February)

eBay: $535 (July) and $450.00 (April)

However, since 2007, the most slabbed sales were 7.0s for this issue and there's only been 13 of 'em sold on eBay from then 'till now. Not that well-known and in-demand is pretty accurate.

Take from that what you will also. Just an observation, and although I will not feature it, I will mention that the next issue of Fantastic Four #17 has the 5th appearance of Dr. Doom.

July, 1963 is the cover date of Fantastic Four #16. It hit the newsstands around April, 1963.

THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #5

1st meeting of Spider-Man & Doctor Doom
1st Doctor Doom x-over
1st Spidey & Doctor Doom battle

Amazing Spider-Man #5 is still an important issue as it's the first time Spider-Man meets one of the most iconic villains in the Marvel Comics universe. That's right, the wise-crackin' wall crawler meets Doctor Doom here for the first time. 

Seeing that both he and Spidey are outcasts, ole Doctor Doom tries to recruit Spider-Man in joining his cause for evil and that the two of them together could rule the world! Hey, who doesn't want to rule the world?

Well, Spidey doesn't, and he doesn't buy into Doctor Doom's brilliant idea either. Of course, this 1st meeting between our friendly neighborhood Spider-Man and the iconic arch nemesis of the Fantastic Four would evolve into their 1st battle as well.

Actually, there would be two face offs between the two contained in this mighty issue. After Spidey escapes their first skirmish, Doom plans to capture Spidey but captures a certain Flash Thompson dressed as the webhead instead. 

The 2nd battle is definitely longer and more action-packed than the first. Good ole Silver Age action drawn by Steve Ditko. 

 
Definitely a classic issue and a great Spider-Man Silver Age key comic as well. Only one 9.8 in the CGC Census at the time of this writing and it's a Universal. 9.6s only has 9 currently with none of them being restored. Only twelve 9.4s and one is under the Restored label. Total is 1,510 registered copies.

Onto Pence copies for this issue and the highest graded copies are so far are four 7.0s, all Universal, non-restored copies. 2nd highest are also four 6.5 non-restored comics. Only 16 total copies graded to date concerning UK Pence copies of this issue in the registry. Cover price is still 9d in the price box.

Pence copies for these early Spidey issues are rising in price and demand. Needless to say, but the niche is growing and becoming more recognized by collectors. Here's the UK Pence CGC stats.

This was taken directly from Part 1 to the Spider-Man Silver Age Key Issues series that was recently done. Numbers may be slightly different since then (January 7th, 2017). 

The Amazing Spider-Man #5 has the cover date of October, 1963 and the LoC copyright date of July 9, 1963.

FANTASTIC FOUR ANNUAL #2

Expanded origin of Doctor Doom
1st appearance of Werner von Doom
1st appearance of Boris

I was tempted to note this a "full" origin of Doom. Boy, but this issue does have a more complete origin or back ground story for Victor von Doom.

It's not the first origin of the villain, but we do see the first appearance of Victor's pops, Werner von Doom, in flashback.  Of course, this issue reveals Doom's back history that eventually leads him to his rivalry with Reed Richards and how they first met.

Getting slightly ahead of ourselves here. Let's get to the basic core of Doom's story.

This origin is important and key because it establishes important things about the character and villainy of Doom. It establishes that he was from a gypsy family and community that was looked down upon by most of Latveria, especially the ruthless ruler King Vladimir Fortunov (debuts in this issue also).

Much like Magneto, Victor and his people were persecuted by this ruthless King Vladimir Fortunov, and cruelty directly affected the boy who would later become Doom. 

A disastrous set up and we can all guess what is to happen next. The King does hunt down him and his father.

So, we also learn some more interesting and important facts about Doom and his lineage. His mother knew magic also and left behind some things that would shape the character of Victor von Doom and his own magical prowess.

 

As Victor makes more mischief for the King and Latveria as the years go by, they too begin to hunt him down. Regardless, his magic and intelligence always fool the King's men. 

Doom would use robot decoys to keep from getting caught, much like he would later use Doombots in his villainous career. Word of his genius would spread.

And at the university, he would meet Reed Richards. The original origin doesn't really explain much of a connection to Doom and Reed, but this origin does make that important connection. 

So we can clearly see an early glimpse of Doom's world class arrogance. It's this arrogance that has led to his downfall quite a few times.

However, this arrogance would lead to Richards rooming with Grimm instead and his fateful disfigurement. I think he would blame the accident on Richards in later comics.

And finally, we have the famous scene where he acquires his famous armor, mask and hooded garb.

So, pretty important origin that would establish quite a few things that we all connect to the character today. Not sure just how well-known this key origin is, and Overstreet just notes it as a Dr. Doom origin.

Here's how CGC notes it as of this writing.


Pretty uneventful notation as well, but this origin, although not the first, is important for both the characters of Doctor Doom and Reed Richards as well.

Yes, there are Canadian Editions of this issue as well. I don't know much about these, but I do believe that these Canadian Editions basically had the same cover and price.

No different prices for these, I believe. However, they were noticeably different.

Regular back cover and Canadian Edition back cover

The backs were blank and I think the inside cover was also blank where the ads should be like in the regular U.S. copies. I remember Strange Tales Annual #2 had one of these Canadian Editions without adverts.

Fantastic Four Annual #2 has the cover date of September, 1964. It hit the stands around July, 1964.

FANTASTIC FOUR #57

Dr. Doom steals Silver Surfer's powers
4rth Silver Surfer on cover

Part of this story was greatly used in the Fantastic Four Rise of the Silver Surfer movie, and Dr. Doom does end up stealing Silver Surfer's power and board. If there were a villain who would think and could pull such a coup, it has to be Doctor Doom.

The Inhumans also make an appearance, and the story is continued in the next issue, Fantastic Four #58. I believe the story arc ends with issue #60.

Yes, it's a whole Dr. Doom goes cosmic, and I believe it's considered a classic Doom & Silver Surfer story arc. It's definitely pretty well-known among collectors and even more so since the flick that based part of it off this story arc.

This is the 4rth comic cover the Silver Surfer graces and Fantastic Four #57 was released September of 1966 with the cover date of December of the same year.

MARVEL SUPER-HEROES #20

1st appearance of Valeria

Who says that super-villains don't need love too? Sure, they do.

Apparently, Victor von Doom wasn't always hard-hearted, and supposedly he and Valeria were teenage lovers. Doom a softie for anyone?

This villain does have them as we'll later learn. Because Doom is such a badass, Diablo wants to do a super-villain team up but the Doctor is having none of it.

That's until, Diablo reveals that he has Valeria hostage. There is then a brief flashback that reveals a bit more about Doom's past and this woman who holds a special place in his heart.

Then this memory connects with part of the origin of Victor von Doom told in Fantastic Four Annual #2. Actually, the character of Valeria is written into Doom's origin in this very issue as shown below.

So it retells the death of Victor von Doom's father but also adds this extra bit of information that has Valeria written into it.

So this retelling of Dr. Doom's origin not only writes Valeria into it, but it also reveals that before he leaves to study in the U.S., he already had become cold-hearted and intent on seeking ultimate power to basically rule mankind. Thus, he left Valeria behind.

Now, it seems that old feelings start coming back when it comes to Valeria. He fights to free her from Diablo but she would realize that Doom was far from the boy she had once loved so dearly.


In the end, she refuses Doom and leaves him this time. Another tragic ending for the iconic villain and another addition to his back story and mythos. 

CGC is a bit sparse for this issue. Don't think it's all that in-demand, even though a 9.8 sold last year (2016) for $1050. Most recent 9.4 CGC sold for only $176.50 back in September of last year also.


When it comes to character of Doctor Doom in the movies, I wonder if they'll ever tell any of this stuff on the big screen. So far, Hollyweird has yet to do a good on-screen translation of this iconic villain.

We shall have to see how they once again tackle this character in a third attempt. I'd like to see a little more back story.

Roy Thomas wrote this story with art by Stan Lee's brother, Larry Lieber. Cover date for Marvel Super-Heroes #20 is May, 1969 and hit the newsstands February of the same year.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please do not mistake the Valeria with the daughter of Reed and Sue Richards. Two different characters but they are both connected by Dr. Doom.

Getting ahead of ourselves here, but we do have Part 2 to this thing. Despite that these comics may not be known or not on the radar for most doesn't mean they aren't significant to the character of Doom.

It just means they aren't that well-known. Anyway, I had all three parts done and all the sudden my Part 2 draft vanished. Super mucking pissed.

Looks like I'll be rewriting the entire post again.

<< MORBIUS KEY COMICS | PART 2 >> 

Modern Age Spider-Man Key Comics Part 1

SILVER AGE

BRONZE AGE

COPPER AGE

 MODERN AGE

Pt. 1
Pt. 2
Pt. 3
Pt. 4
Pt. 5
Pt. 6
Pt. 7

Ah, the dreaded Modern Age section to this Spider-Man key comics series, which has some major and minor keys. Some would even argue if some are even keys.

Yes, I've dreaded getting to the Modern Age, despite being "Spidey" Modern Age comics. What a vast era and did anyone come up with another "Age" to call it yet?

Hell, I personally think we should call it the "Plastic Age" since most containers are made of plastic in this age, the rise of the third-party grading companies and slabbing valuable comics in plastic, the fake ass (plastic), artificially created rarity of variant covers, and I could go on but I won't. CGC was founded in 2000 and PGX in 2002.

Don't know if 2000 or 2004 or what year should mark that era. Wizard Magazine was hyping them CGC sales on eBay during the time though, but that's in a hobby sense. What about actual comic books?

Was there a recognizable shift in actual comics, some monumental characteristics that made marks in the world of comics? Well, digital comics, rehashes of old story events, widespread gender and race swapping of already iconic characters (spin-off piggybacks), constant continuity reboots or "soft boots" and 25 or more different variants for a single issue. 

Of course, I'm just talking about Marvel and DC Comics. Indie publishers seemingly are pumping out more original or fresh ideas and concepts in comics.

Anyway, dunno, and we're still in the 90s when it concerns this series. So in continuing the madness, here's the issues kicking off this monster.

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN ANNUAL #25

1st Venom solo story

Overstreet notes this as the 1st Venom solo story, and it does indeed have Venom in a solo adventure called "Truckstop of Doom". That's right here, no Spidey in it or a team up with any other Marvel hero or villain.

This story just has Eddie Brock as Venom and a fateful encounter with a certain nice couple who graciously gives Brock a ride. They end up stopping at a rest stop where a gang has taken the restaurant hostage.

Hence the word "fateful".  Well, let's see, dumb ass gang bangers and one Eddie Brock with a Venom symbiote? Sounds like a great ass whooping.

Even with the Venom movie news in full swing and Venom is on the radar of most every Spidey fan, collector, comic investor and speculator, this is not a widely-known issue. It is currently under the radar in a pretty big bad way and even CGC doesn't yet recognize or note it.

I did do some extra checking, and as far as known Venom appearances in comics, this does seem to check out as Eddie Brock's first solo story as Venom.

Might definitely be a yet unknown comic to consider for any Venom fan, and the cover date is September, 1991 for Amazing Spider-Man Annual #25.

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #360

1st cameo appearance of Carnage

Carnage does appear very briefly in this comic, but he does not fully show up. You do see half of his face, his hand, a bit of his symbiote goop in a few panels on one page. Although finally named, it's really not enough to constitute a full appearance and most likely why it's not according to Overstreet.

When I first wrote about this comic back in 2014, it was simmering up at that time. Back in 2014 and when I first wrote about this comic then, a CGC 9.8 sold in July for around $50 bucks.

Fast forward to today? CGC recently sold August 6th for $107.50 smackers. 

The most recent sales before that from June 17th to July 26th of 2017 sold around the $170 to $180 range. They were all fixed priced sales though.

Anyway, let's see how this crazy symbiote makes his cameo in this issue.

And there it is! Eh, deserves to be a cameo in my opinion. 

CGC Census for this comic is as stands at the time of this writing. There are Australian Editions with the $1.80 price variant also, and I do have a cover example for ya.

Do not think CGC Census has any recorded data for the Australian Editions of Amazing Spider-Man #360. Here's the a cover example for ya anyway and just showing ya that they do exist out there in this great wide comic collecting world.

You can click the image to get a bigger one if you want to get a better view. Looks like the Australian Editions or "price variants" were also newsstands with the UPC code.

This issue does have a regular U.S. newsstand edition as well. This listings cover example is a direct market edition since they were the preferred distribution channel by this time. 

Amazing Spider-Man #360 and the first cameo appearance of Carnage has the cover date of March, 1992

 WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #86

1st appearance of Demogoblin

We finally get the first appearance of Demogoblin in this issue, and it's where the demonic entity separates from Jason Macendale, Hobgoblin II, and either becomes it's own manifestation or truly reveals itself in all its evil glory. Yes, the demon did possess Hobby for a while and gave Macendale super strength since he couldn't get his grubby paws on the Goblin Formula.

Not really sure this demon helped all that much when it came to besting Macendale's foes.

From Web of Spider-Man #48 to this issue, Jason Macendale had been fighting the demonic entity within him. Like how Peter Parker rid of the Symbiote that tried to take him over, the Hobgoblin II was able to expel his own parasite, resulting in the creation of a whole another monster.

Here's how this demonic exorcism of sorts plays out in this daring issue of Web of Spider-Man #86.

Can't say that ole Macendale didn't deserve the torment. I mean, what else did he expect in making a deal with a demon? 

Obviously newsstand copies of this issue exist as the main example image is one of them. During this time, newsstand distribution was said to be in-between 15 to 10 percent. 

1990 had 15% distribution and 1995 had 10% concerning Marvel Comics, at least. In-between those numbers or maybe even just at 15%?

Definitely a widely over-looked and under the radar debut, and I'm assuming this issue may or might still be in some dollar bins out there in the wild. I think I may have to take a looksie myself the next hunt I'm on at Stockton Con.

Web of Spider-Man #86 has the cover date of March, 1992.

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #361

First full appearance of Carnage

Finally we have the first full appearance of Carnage in Amazing Spider-Man #361, and the hype has already affected this bad boy in CGC 9.8 grades. This issue is the most sought out concerning Carnage key issues and related first appearances so far.

If you've got this one unslabbed, may be time to submit it to CGC or CBCS if you think it's a high enough grade. If you've got an unslabbed mid-grade to VF, you may want to wait for a higher peak to dish this sucker off.

Then again, if you're a fan of the symbiotes and this symbiote in particular, you may just want this 1st Carnage appearance and key issue comic just to have it in your own personal collection or PC. Nothing wrong with that either.

Even though it's not noted up above, this issue does have the 1st meeting between Spider-Man and Carnage, and it also has their first scrap or fight. The panels below shows how this happens in this very issue:

There does seem to be quite a bit of copies submitted to the ole CGC Census concerning this issue, but don't be fooled. The total numbers have newsstand editions and direct market editions mixed in with each other.

Might as well as show the census for the 2nd printing also. There's also an Australian edition that's being toted as an Australian Edition with the different price of $1.80 on the cover.

Might as well show the CGC Census for those as well, and I think I'll put them covers up here just in case there are collectors out there interested in them and would like to have a reference in helping to spot them easier.

U.S Direct Edition

2nd Printing

Australian Edition

The 1st full appearance of Carnage in this issue of Amazing Spider-Man #361 has the cover date of April, 1992. Cover image for this listing is of a newsstand edition.

WEB OF SPIDER-MAN #87

2nd appearance of Demogoblin

Demogoblin and Spidey do meet for the first time in the previous issue of Web of Spider-Man #86. They even have a go or take a crack at each other for a tick and get separated for a moment.

The two crazy kids do meet up again for the 2nd time in this issue but they do not have another crack at each other. Instead, this issue mainly deals with the drama of the Rose and it is Part 4 of 6 to the story line "In the Name of the Rose". 

Actually, Demogoblin only shows up in 7 panels on 2 pages in this issue, but when it comes to a 2nd appearance, are we really gonna nit-pick that much about it? Especially when it's a hugely over-looked and not even remotely a big 'o deal yet?

Key issue? Arguably, but I definitely think it's a minor key when it comes to the market's conscious currently. Then again, Speedball's debut was a minor key not that long ago and so was Squirrel Girl's, Cloak & Dagger's debut, Mr. Immortal & the 1st appearance of the Great Lakes Avengers, Damage Control's intro, Paragon/Her/Ayesha, and whoever else.

Then again, those characters got some Hollyweird play. Would be strange to see Demogoblin considered for the big or small screen.

Not unless Sony thinks symbiotes and demons would make a winning combination. Anyway, no surprise that this has a low CGC Census and not because it's widely rare or anything.

Well, who knows? It could be since this comic isn't really seen as anything worth grading or keeping in great shape to eventually get graded.

Take those two above sentences with a grain of salt. Someone is probably hoarding issue #86 and #87 somewhere out in this great wide world.

Cover image for this listing is a direct market edition, and Web of Spider-Man #87 has the cover date of May, 1992.

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #362

2nd appearance of Carnage
1st meeting of Venom & Carnage
1st Venom & Carnage fight

Nobody is noting this issue just yet as Carnage's 2nd appearance. Not Overstreet and not CGC. Right now, this comic is still not all that well-known. There is demand for it, because it has Venom and Carnage.

The cover is misleading. It's not a Venom and Carnage team up, but a Venom and Spider-Man team up against Carnage. 

Venom and Spider-Man do fight at the very beginning of this issue though. So for those who like to witness a good ole Venom vs. Spidey scrap, this issue has it.

Publishing date is May, 1992, making this a Modern Age comic. I'm still considering this comic a sleeper and prices haven't really moved for this comic since I first brought it up in the very small Carnage key issues series done back in 2014. 

Universal 9.8s can still be snagged for around $50, and that's a shame that this key comic is still over-looked or neglected. Let's get into that a bit before we look at the CGC Census.

So, despite this being the 2nd appearance of Carnage, there is more than meets the eye to this comic. As noted above, it is the first time Venom and Carnage meet, and it is also the first time Venom and Carnage fight.

Don't get me wrong here: I'm not saying this is the first time the Venom symbiote meets Cletus Kasady. It's not, but it is the first time Eddie Brock as Venom meets Cletus Kasady as Carnage. 

As for the first time in comics that the two fight, it's more of a scuffle than an all-out brawl. They would have more of an all-out brawl in Amazing Spider-Man #363.

So, those aspects of this very comic are probably not that well-known out there in collector, comic investing, or comic speculating land. Alright, here's some CGC Census information about this particular over-looked issue.

2nd printing has the cover in silver like issue #361. As shown above, there are Australian Editions. Despite the cover date to the Australian Editions being a later date than the U.S. cover dates on the covers, the indicias for the Australian newsstand price variants do have the same dates as U.S. copies. CGC notes them on their census pages.

That goes the same for issue #361 and #363 concerning Australian newsstand editions or price variants. Alright, let's rock out the covers below:

Newsstand Edition

2nd Printing

Australian Edition

Cover date for the regular U.S. editions of Amazing Spider-Man #362 is May, 1992. Australian has the cover date of August, 1992 but with the Indicia date of May, 1992. Cover price for the Australian price variant is $1.80.

AMAZING SPIDER-MAN #363

3rd appearance of Carnage
Venom vs Carnage battle

Just like the 2nd appearance of Carnage, nobody cares enough to note this sucker as the 3rd appearance of Carnage. At least, for now, that is. 

Carnage isn't yet that known outside of comic geekdom, but I'm sure the Venom movie will make the character even more popular. Just look at what Guardians of the Galaxy did for Rocket Raccoon. Now all the kids love that character and most of comic collectors are gunning for his first appearances.

So Carnage just may get even more popular after the movie hits in 2017. Hopefully, they don't kill him off right off the bat. 

The previous issue had a pretty short encounter between Venom, Carnage and Spider-Man. That issue is the first time Eddie Brock as Venom and Carnage met face to face in comics and a small little scuffle, but this issue of Amazing Spider-Man #363 has the two symbiote's real battle.

It may be their first real battle, even though Spider-Man is also involved in the fray. Here's a little teaser of the scrap between Spidey, Venom and Carnage in this issue:

Just like issue #362, this comic is still very much a sleeper and overlooked.

CGC 9.8s are still selling for around $50 bucks, highly under the radar at the moment and we all know that Carnage is the main villain of the Venom movie and the two will most likely have an awesome big screen battle. I mean, that's a definite that fans will always anticipate no matter how many Venom franchise flicks and reboots happen over the years.

I could not find any cover examples of the Australian newsstand edition or price variant. I think it may be $1.80 also.

Don't know much about those either. As far as know so far, there are regular U.S. direct market and newsstand editions and the Australian price variants for this comic.

June, 1992 is the cover date for Amazing Spider-Man #363 and the 3rd appearance of Carnage. 

INFINITY WAR #1

1st issue to Infinity Gauntlet sequel
1st brief Doppelganger (Spider-Man)

Besides the namesake of this limited comic series having "Infinity War" in it, there is a debut in this issue that's very much related to Spider-Man. Remember, Doppelganger? Well, more specifically, the Spider-Man Doppelganger?

In this issue, Spidey wasn't the only one to have  a doppelganger. There was a shitload of doppelgangers for a lot of Marvel characters in this issue.

I think the Spidey doppelganger one is one of the few from this issue that actually carried over into the comic series of it's main original counterpart. This evil duplicate of Spider-Man was created by Magnus, the evil and future persona of Adam Warlock.

Here's how this creature first debuts in this issue.

The panel above is how he winds up later and near the end of this issue. Does not really show the fight between Spidey and Doppelganger. Doppelganger's debut is more of a cameo since it's basically 3 panels.

Doppelganger dies but the character would be resurrected not very long after this issue by Demogoblin. Yes, we are getting to that creature's debut as well.

Before that, here's the CGC Census of this comic so far. Great limited series, and I do love Starlin's work on all the Infinity stuff.

I'm also a fan of Ron Lim's work on the cosmic side of comics as well. Hope to see Mr. Ron Lim this year at Stockton Con.


Infinity War #1 has the cover date of June, 1992. 

SPIDER-MAN #24

3rd appearance Demogoblin
Demogoblin dons new costume
2nd Doppelganger or 1st full

When it comes to the Spider-Man comic series, I seriously do not know of many keys or even any debuts that are worthwhile to even mention from that series. Do not get me wrong here as I do love the series.

Well, okay, I love all the early issues with Todd McFarlane art, and I even do like many of the stories also. I'm just saying that when it comes to the actual mythos or introducing a fan-favorite villain or supporting character, the Spider-Man comic series is a bit lacking.

I'm not even saying that this issue should be considered hugely important or sought-out. Sure, it has the 2nd appearance of the Doppelganger who is killed by Macendale as Hobgoblin in this issue. The end will see Demogoblin pick up the body of Doppelganger in order to revive the creature later.

If you're a fan of the Demogoblin and just want the character's early appearances then this surely one to get. Demogoblin does receive a new look or costume as well in this very issue.

Another not so well-known bit of something-something concerning this issue is that it does have the first Hobgoblin vs Demogoblin fight or battle in this issue. Demogoblin's new look isn't all that great to be honest, but I guess they needed something to distinguish Hobby and Demo apart from each other.

This is not an issue with Todd McFarlane art. Actually, it is Mark Bagley.

Okay, so I believe that McFarlane stopped with issue #16. Eric Larsen did the cover and pencils for issue #15 but began his short run with issue #18. Bagley's work on the series was even shorter and began with this issue and only lasted until issue #26.

Not exactly a well-known Spidey key issue, but it is also a Hobgoblin and Demogoblin key comic as well.

Mark Bagley pencils and Mark Bagley cover. Speaking of covers, Spider-Man #24 has the cover date of July, 1992.

Man, these things are taking up more time and taking longer and longer to do. When I start the intro, I have a rough idea of what I'm going to talk about in the outro to each part, but by the time I reach the outro, I completely forget what I was going to talk about.

Alright, I just remembered. I know a few people have talked about labeling the next "Age" of comics, and I'm surprised it has not been done yet. Then again, I'm not really that surprised either.

Has there been anything of significance to mark another "Age"? Some consider the Copper Age part of the Modern Age that began in the mid 80s.

I consider Copper Age starting in 1984 and lasting until 1991. 1992 then begins the Modern Age for me. What happened in the Copper Age?

Rise of indie comics or publishers, more serious/mature or darker tones and content in comics from writers like Alan Moore and Frank Miller, anti-heroes taking center stage (Wolverine, Punisher, Lobo, Deadpool, Spawn, Venom, Grendel, Crow, etc). The Bronze Age did lay the groundwork for these qualities to happen, but the Copper Age saw the fruition of all this.

So, really, what would have different distinctions of the comic industry now to mark a different "Age"? I've already noted grading comics and getting them slabbed, the obvious intent of artificial rarity in 1-and-whatever ratios for variant comics, and the direct intent of comic publishers to pump out multiple variants en masse. 

As for actual comic content like concepts, stories, and characters, what's being done differently that is significant in the industry? Don't really have time to get into that, so I'll leave it at that.

Part 2 will be coming in the near future. Have a good weekend all.

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